00;00;00;00 – 00;00;25;10
Marc Moss
Welcome to the Tell Us Something podcast. I’m Marc Moss, founder and executive director of Tell Us Something. We are currently looking for storytellers for the next Tell Us something storytelling event. The theme is hold My beer. If you’d like to pitch your story for consideration, please call (406) 203-4683. You have three minutes to leave your pitch. The pitch deadline is December 7th.

00;00;25;12 – 00;00;29;07
Marc Moss
I look forward to hearing from you this week on the podcast.

00;00;29;10 – 00;00;47;16
James Crosby
Someday you’re going to be cool. That is what the rebellious older sister says to her younger brother. Towards the beginning of Almost Famous, my rebellious younger sister did not share that same positive outlook.

00;00;47;18 – 00;01;02;15
Aaron Miller
A couple of weeks later, mom got me into private speech therapy in order to improve some of my speaking, reading and writing. And mom was also told that I was not going to be able to read or write in my life. When she first found out I had autism.

00;01;02;17 – 00;01;16;15
Marc Moss
For storytellers to share their true personal story on the theme. Never again. And it’s a party. Everyone’s dancing. Everyone singing along. Strangers are kissing each other. Hugging. Everyone’s just. It’s a celebration.

00;01;16;17 – 00;01;34;07
Karna Sundby
I realized that I was in the middle of this horrific storm. Suspended from a few sheets of ripstop nylon. It’s funny how there’s not fear, how logic kicks in when you’re making decisions that may possibly save your life.

00;01;34;09 – 00;01;55;09
Marc Moss
Their stories were recorded live in person in front of a packed house September 18th, 2024, at the George and Jane Denison Theater in Missoula, Montana. Tell Us Something acknowledges that we gather on the ancestral lands of the Salish, Kootenai, and Pender peoples. These lands have been inhabited for millennia, shaped by the wisdom and stewardship of the First Nation peoples.

00;01;55;11 – 00;02;21;18
Marc Moss
We acknowledge the historical and ongoing trauma inflicted upon indigenous communities, including the forcible removal from their lands, the destruction of their cultures, and the systemic injustices that continue to persist. As we honor the indigenous people who have called this place home. Let us commit to learning from their traditions and values a tangible way to do that. If you live in Missoula, Montana, is to visit the Missoula Public Library on Friday, November 1st.

00;02;21;18 – 00;02;48;19
Marc Moss
Missoula Public Library hosts a First Friday event highlighting native art and culture, showcasing the library’s permanent collection. That event kicks off four weeks of programing celebrating native American Heritage Month. A tooltip will be installed on the Harrison Children’s Library. They will unveil an exhibit of the Salish Kootenay Seasonal Round that gives children a new interactive learning tool. They will also debut a new collection of indigenous books and materials.

00;02;48;21 – 00;03;19;04
Marc Moss
Stop by the library or visit Missoula Public Library Board to learn more. Tell us something. Stories sometimes have adult themes. Storytellers sometimes use adult language. In our first story. Listen to James Crosby share his disastrous sailing camp experiences and life changing moments as a lifeguard. James shares his journey of self-discovery and resilience, and discovers how a seemingly simple act of kindness led him to finding his true calling and inspire others along the way.

00;03;19;04 – 00;03;27;28
Marc Moss
In a story that he calls too big to sail. Thanks for listening.

00;03;28;01 – 00;04;11;07
James Crosby
Someday you’re going to be cool. That is what the rebellious older sister says to her younger brother. Towards the beginning of Almost Famous, my rebellious younger sister did not share that same positive outlook. I had no shot at being cool. All the things you needed to do to be cool. I was not good at seeing. When I turned 13, I had gone through a growth spurt that was kind of like one of those Play-Doh pasta presses.

00;04;11;09 – 00;04;17;23

My limbs just shot out of my body.

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And I was a total liability on the sports field. I was kind of like, if the wacky inflatable arms guy had a jersey on.

00;04;28;22 – 00;04;29;29

His.

00;04;30;01 – 00;04;36;16

Nice defense. James, I’m on your team. Well.

00;04;36;18 – 00;05;01;25

So I had yet to find my thing. I had yet to find the thing that would make me cool. But if I was signing your yearbook, headed into the summer. That summer that I turned 13. I knew that my time was coming because I was looking forward to sailing camp, sailing camp last summer. This is when I was 12.

00;05;01;25 – 00;05;30;24

I had gone for the first time. It was the Chesapeake Bay and you couldn’t have been further from the ocean. It was great because I had just started watching Shark Week. So sailing was not a great choice. But we overcame that because my goodness, I got it. Port side. Port. Port. That’s left. Left. Nice starboard. I like starbursts, I opened them with my right hand.

00;05;30;24 – 00;05;54;11

Starboard. Starburst. Right. Yes, I got it. I could tie some knots, like. All right. That’s pretty good. And when we finally got into the boats, I kind of understood how the wind worked. And, boy, that feeling when you got going downwind and you tacked so the wind caught the other side of the sail and the boom swung over your head and caught the wind.

00;05;54;11 – 00;06;23;25

And you felt the power of the boat surged forward. The sun on your face, the wind, the sound of the water on the hull of the boat. I was in it, and there was nobody else I could disappoint. It was just me out on my boat. The captain of my craft. It was great. The things that I had to endure with sailing camp also included golf.

00;06;23;27 – 00;06;34;22

It hurts when you swing in with. It hurts even worse when you hear somebody behind you go. Ooh!

00;06;34;25 – 00;06;59;16

And then there was tennis. Tennis? I was the only camper to ever lose an entire game on the serve. I was serving up nothing but disappointment. I was so bad that after I lost this entire game, I went to practice my serve against the fence. And I just hit the ball straight over the fence, across the road, into the pool.

00;06;59;18 – 00;07;25;15

Nobody wanted me on my team. Nobody wanted me on their team. I didn’t want to be on my team. Let’s be honest. So finally it came time to sail and I was so excited. I was so excited. Except as a as a camper. I was there towards the end of the summer, so a lot of the other campers, they were there the whole summer and this summer that I returned.

00;07;25;17 – 00;07;55;16

I noticed that the people I had been sailing with last summer had moved on to bigger boats. Suddenly the people around me were a lot smaller, and when I went to set up my boat that year, I noticed that the mast was kind of short. In fact, the whole gear was unusually easy to carry over, and when I finally set up my boat and shoved off shore out into the great wide open of the Chesapeake Bay, once again, this is far from the ocean.

00;07;55;19 – 00;08;24;16

You could probably stand the whole time, but there I was, out on my boat, and when I went to tack to turn the boat, when the boom was supposed to go over my head, this time it hit me right in the arm, and I wrestled the boom over my head and pushed it out to the other side, at which point the boat had turned back into the wind and the boom came right back.

00;08;24;18 – 00;08;41;05

Knocked me into the back corner of my craft, and I took on some water. Yikes. All right, so I’m bailing it out and the booms coming around, and I try to push it around, and I fall back and I take on some more water. And before I know it, I hear the thing that still chills me to my soul.

00;08;41;08 – 00;09;13;04

It’s the recovery boat coming out to say, hey, are you okay? If you have to say, are you okay? I am not okay. And as they dragged me back to shore, waist deep in water because I couldn’t fit on the recovery boat while they held the sail, the look from my peers was mortifying. I did fail upwards, though.

00;09;13;05 – 00;09;39;18

I became somebody else’s problem. I was too big to sail, so they put me in the bigger boats. That didn’t make me a better sailor. Now I just had two other people in the boat with me. Luckily they were also bad at sailing, so I wasn’t really letting them down. We were all figuring it out. Well, at the end of the week it came time for the Gibson Island Regatta and we had accomplished nothing.

00;09;39;23 – 00;10;02;27
James CrosbyIn fact, our boat was so bad that by the time we thankfully crossed the finish line, the other boats were already rigging up on the beach. But there were only three boats in the race that day, so we got a medal.

00;10;02;29 – 00;10;28;26

I still felt like a loser, but I was so bankrupt of mojo that when the cute girl at camp asked me to go to the dance, I said no because once again, the wacky wavy inflatable arms guy was not on the dance floor. I promise. So I vowed at that time I would never sail again until years later.

00;10;28;28 – 00;10;48;27

I had become a lifeguard. Now I became a lifeguard because I thought lifeguards were cool and in a pool. I didn’t really have to swim because I could stand just about everywhere. So I had become a lifeguard and I took it very seriously. And my sister was also a lifeguard, and she could assure you that I was still not cool.

00;10;49;00 – 00;11;12;27

And one day I met a guy who would change everything. I saw this guy get up onto the diving board with his son and throw his son from the diving board into the water and from across the pool. I was like, it’s time, I gotta go. So I went cruising, sir. Sir. And his son was flopping in the deep end.

00;11;12;28 – 00;11;35;12

Looked like he was drowning. And as I get closer, he pops his head out of the water. He’s got this huge smile on his face and he’s swimming as though, oh my gosh, okay, what’s happening? And the guy on the diving board is laughing and he’s laughing. He says, hey, it’s okay, we do this all the time. This is my son Josh, and Josh has cerebral palsy.

00;11;35;14 – 00;11;57;20

He can’t get around grade on land, but when he’s in the water, he can do his thing. And Josh is a daredevil. He doesn’t want to get into the shallow end. He wants to get chucked in to the deep end. So it turns out Ross says, hey, we’re looking for lifeguards. Are you looking for some extra time, some extra help?

00;11;57;20 – 00;12;08;14

And I said, yeah, I think that that could be cool. And he says, actually, it’s a, it’s a windsurfing program. Do you know how to sail?

00;12;08;16 – 00;12;18;10

Well, Ross, I got third place in the Gibson Island Regatta. I,

00;12;18;12 – 00;12;40;07

So I show up for my first day on the job, meet the other instructors. They’re all really cool. We’re all getting along. And this camp is for kids with disabilities. And the whole thing is to get them out on the water, to get them to move in ways that they can’t on land. And my job as a windsurf instructor is to use this adaptive windsurfer.

00;12;40;09 – 00;13;05;01

It’s two long, skinny windsurfers with a sheet of four foot by eight foot plywood in between. It has two sails. The front sail is for the instructor to work the sail, catch the wind and move us around the back. Sail a much smaller one is for our athletes, kids in wheelchairs, kids that can’t move around. Sometimes the only thing they can move is one finger.

00;13;05;01 – 00;13;31;06

And my job is to get that one finger on the boom so that they can feel the wind catch the sail. They can feel the boat surge across the water. They can hear the water on the hull, and if the wind moves the wrong direction, I’m there to block the boom. That was something I was super qualified at.

00;13;31;09 – 00;13;50;18

So whatever it took for me to get to that point was something I was happy to endure, because the look on those kids faces made it all worthwhile.

00;13;50;21 – 00;14;21;11
Marc Moss
Thanks, James. The oldest and tallest among dozens of first cousins, James Crosby oddly and infuriatingly found himself outmatched in many backyard sports. He earned scores of nicknames Stone hands, Butterfingers, flood pants, all apt descriptions of his athletic prowess and giraffe like physique. After years of searching for the thing that could make him cool, a summer job with Access Sport America taught him to be something better.

00;14;21;13 – 00;14;56;17
Marc Moss
To learn more about the adaptive programs at Access Sport America, visit go access.org. In our next story. ‘s autism diagnosis doesn’t define him. It fuels his determination. From speech therapy to high school theater, Aaron overcomes his challenges and proves his capabilities. Aaron believes that disabilities aren’t limitations. They’re opportunities for growth. Aaron calls his story growing up. Thanks for listening.

00;14;56;20 – 00;15;26;07
Aaron Miller
Sorry I was laughing too hard. From James’s story. So I have less of a story and a little bit more of a statement. So a lot of people think of mental disabilities such as autism, ADHD as bad. But I’m going to say they’re not. And I’m not saying that because I have one of my own. I’m saying because it’s true.

00;15;26;09 – 00;15;56;17

And here’s why. So when I was four. Mom had just found out that I had autism, and she had absolutely no idea how to react. My brother was born three years before I was, and he does not have anything like autism or ADHD or even anything that he got later in life. like PTSD or anything like that.

00;15;56;20 – 00;16;17;10

So mom had no idea how to react. A couple weeks later, mom got me into private speech therapy in order to improve some of my speaking, reading, and writing. And mom was also told that I was not going to be able to be able. I’m sorry. I was not going to be able to read or write in my life.

00;16;17;18 – 00;16;39;25

When she first found out I had autism. So a couple of weeks later, she signs me up for private speech therapy in order to improve my speaking, reading, and writing because I was already doing it. But I sucked at it with because I was four years old.

00;16;39;27 – 00;17;08;16

So I was not happy. I did not think it was for me because I thought it was stupid. So I was not looking forward to the first day. So we first go in and we’re brought into this really small waiting room. And to the left is a hallway that leads to a bunch of other people’s offices. And then straight ahead is a hallway to the back of the building, which is like a playroom.

00;17;08;18 – 00;17;33;20

So I get in and after waiting a little bit, I get introduced to a mentor named Margaret. And she takes me and my mom over to her office down the left hallway. And then she starts asking mom a couple questions. Mom starts asking Margaret a couple questions. And then she starts asking me a couple questions. And then at some point, she had mom leave the room.

00;17;33;22 – 00;17;57;29

This was when I was extremely uncomfortable. I did not get defiant, which is good. But I was still very uncomfortable. So mom leaves the room and on the inside I’m like, help! So Margaret continues to ask a couple of questions such as spell this, pronounce this. Can you write this down? And it wasn’t that long of a trial.

00;17;58;02 – 00;18;20;10

Once we were done, I was excited that I was going to be going home because it was all over. And then mom broke the news to me and said that I had to come back. I did not want that to come. And then I found myself a couple weeks later back into the building with Margaret, with mom not in the room.

00;18;20;10 – 00;18;24;12

And I still thought it was done.

00;18;24;15 – 00;18;50;22

At this point, Margaret started doing something that she did consistently almost every time I saw her. She would show me an iPad and on it would be an animated sequence picture. You’re like picture. You’re in a classroom and you’re taking any kind of test, math test, history test, whatever. You’re taking a test and you need to sharpen your pencil because it just broke.

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But the teacher said that you can’t get up, so you can’t get up and sharpen your pencil. Even though you just asked the teacher. So you either have the option to get up when the teacher isn’t looking and sharpen your pencil. Kindly ask again if you can sharpen your pencil, or just get up and start screaming.

00;19;17;15 – 00;19;33;12

I first had no idea what to do with these situations because they were always the same thing. It was always an animated problem. Problem comes up and then it gives me three choices and one of them’s correct. I had no idea what to do with these because I had just started kindergarten.

00;19;33;15 – 00;19;36;12

So I was.

00;19;36;15 – 00;19;50;00

So Margaret started guiding me through them. And when I started to learn what the right answers were, I started clicking the wrong answers on purpose.

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I was always like, okay, it’s not okay to yell. I’m going to click the yellow button.

00;19;55;13 – 00;19;58;11
Karna Sundby
Boink.

00;19;58;14 – 00;20;22;20

And Margaret always had to tell me that that was wrong and always had to tell me why that was. And then she started doing a sort of reward system. Every time I got one of them right, she would give me access to this Batman set that was in the corner of the of her room. It’s like a Barbie doll house, but it’s the Batcave, basically.

00;20;22;22 – 00;20;44;08

So I would get one, right? And then let’s say she gives me, like, the Batman action figure, and then I get another one. Right? And she would give me, let’s say, one of Batman’s gadgets and so on. And I started to enjoy it, and I actually started to learn. And mom started to find me speaking, reading and writing.

00;20;44;08 – 00;21;13;11

Over time. Eventually I started seeing someone else named Ed, and he worked a little differently. So something that he did most of the time was he would turn on his computer and he would open a Google doc, and then he would turn on the text to speech setting. And then what we would do is that we would have a normal conversation with each other, and then he would see how much I was talking and how well I was talking.

00;21;13;13 – 00;21;26;19

My little kid brain exploded. When I found out that it was operated by my voice, he turned it on and I was immediately like, hi, my name is Aaron.

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How are.

00;21;27;04 – 00;21;51;23

You? So we did that a couple times, and I started to have fun at speech therapy because I saw people like Ed where we had fun on the computer, we saw people, or I saw people like Margaret, where I got to play with her Batman set and go through her iPad and stuff with those animated things, whatever you want to call them.

00;21;51;25 – 00;22;15;17

And I also saw someone else named Alana, but the problem is that I saw her the least, so I don’t remember what she did, but she’s going to be important later. So keep her in mind. I’m not joking when I say that. So about six years later, I took a break from private speech therapy, and at this point I had moved across town.

00;22;15;17 – 00;22;46;06

My family had just met another family, and then we moved in. And now we’re just one big happy family, as they call it in the Disney things. So we move in together. But in the process of moving, I had to switch schools. I went from Lolo to the other side of Missoula near the airport, so I had to go from Lolo School to Hellgate Elementary and things got a little rough from there.

00;22;46;08 – 00;23;10;17

Fifth grade was my first year there, and kids would immediately start going up to me and they would find out very quickly that I had autism. And when they did, they would avoid me. They avoided me. They would lie to get away from me and I would even get home. Sometimes crying because I always thought I had no friends or anything.

00;23;10;19 – 00;23;42;17

So but over time, I actually managed to find friends, and those friends even doubted me at first. So I still found friends and everything was going okay. And then Covid came. Yeah, Covid sucked. So Covid came for all of sixth and seventh grade. I did not see my friends as often as I could, and I was always stuck in classes with kids who always made fun of me.

00;23;42;20 – 00;24;07;17

And the worst part was that that’s the key thing, is that they made fun of me. They did not just tease me. They would say they wish that I got Covid first and that I would. Maybe there were some kids who said that they wish I would even die from Covid. And it was not good. Again, I would get home crying.

00;24;07;20 – 00;24;20;00

Thank you. I would get home crying. And the problem was that mom could not do much because of the Covid policies. So I had to sit through this.

00;24;20;03 – 00;24;47;18

But through it all, I never gave up. When I first moved across town, I started writing about my dreams and practice, and I was self-taught writing. I did homework. I did research. I’ve written like essays and everything like that at school, and I’ve proved that I’m really capable.

00;24;47;21 – 00;25;10;09

Sorry. My train of thought derailed. I proved that I’m really capable. I have passed with straight A’s since seventh grade, and I’m now in my junior year of high school.

00;25;10;12 – 00;25;34;24

So ever since I got into high school, no one has doubted me. I first joined the theater department after hearing what my brother and sister always said, because they did theater before me. So I did it, and everyone else was very similar. They had autism, ADHD, dyslexia, all of this stuff. So I fit in pretty well and I was given a chance.

00;25;34;24 – 00;25;47;12

I’ve had people come up to me and say, hey, do you want to be in this piece that I’m doing? So I have passed with straight A’s and I’ve proved that I’m capable.

00;25;47;15 – 00;26;02;02

And now I am the house and facility manager at big Sky High School for the drama department, which is really important.

00;26;02;05 – 00;26;39;01

So through all of this. It was a rough ride. I will say, now ask yourself this is one’s disability a chance to improve? Yes. If very much is. I have gone through so much. But never again will I let my disability change me in any way again.

00;26;39;03 – 00;26;59;15
Marc Moss
Thanks, Aaron. Aaron wanted me to add that Ed and Alana were in the audience that night, and he ran out of time while telling his story. He wants to acknowledge them and again pass along his gratitude to them. was born and raised in Missoula and currently goes to big Sky High School. He loves dogs, performs being outside, and making close friends.

00;26;59;17 – 00;27;19;14

Aaron tries his best with work, people and even himself. In the summer, he works as a camp counselor for Missoula Parks and Recreation. Aaron has had four family members before him participate in other Tell Us Something events and is proud to join the ranks of Tell Us Something storytellers. Coming up after the break and it’s a party. Everyone’s dancing.

00;27;19;14 – 00;27;26;13
Marc Moss
Everyone singing along. Strangers are kissing each other. Hugging. Everyone’s just, hey, it’s a celebration.

00;27;26;16 – 00;27;43;24
Karna Sundby
I realized that I was in the middle of this horrific storm. Suspended from a few sheets of ripstop nylon. It’s funny how there’s not fear, how logic kicks in when you’re making decisions that may possibly save your life.

00;27;43;26 – 00;28;04;23
Marc Moss
Remember that the next Tell Us Something event is January 13th. You can learn about how to pitch your story and get tickets at Tell Us something.org. Thank you to our story sponsors who help us to pay our storytellers. The Good Food Store. For more than 50 years, the Good Food Store has been Missoula’s homegrown independent source for natural, organic and locally sourced food.

00;28;04;25 – 00;28;39;14

Learn more at Good Food store.com. And thanks to story sponsor Parkside Credit Union, whose mission it is to be the best place for people of western Montana to get a loan. Learn more at Parkside fcu.org. Thanks to our accessibility sponsor SBS solar, allowing us to provide American Sign Language interpretation at the live event. SBF solar stands at the forefront of the solar energy revolution, with over 30 years of industry experience specializing in custom solar design and installation for both residential and commercial applications.

00;28;39;21 – 00;29;06;17

SBS solar is committed to promoting energy independence and environmental sustainability. Learn more at SBS linc.com. And thanks to our workshop sponsor, Wide Tide Designs, helping us to feed our storytellers at the group workshop. White Tie Designs is a woman led art and design studio that produces colorful spaces and stunning artwork that fosters positivity and empowers individuals to be their best selves.

00;29;06;19 – 00;29;30;27

Learn more at Wide Tide designs.com. Thanks to our media sponsors, Missoula Events dot net, where you find all the good things that are happening all over Missoula and Missoula Broadcasting Company. Learn more about them and listen online at Missoula Broadcasting company.com. Thanks to our in-kind sponsors. Float Missoula. Learn more at float msl.com and choice of tile. Learn about Joyce at Joyce of tile.com.

00;29;30;28 – 00;29;56;28

All right, let’s get back to the stories. You are listening to the Tell Us Something podcast. I’m Marc Moss. Our next storyteller believes in the power of storytelling so much he founded Tell Us Something in 2011. That’s right. Our next storyteller is me. I call my story. Is anybody alive out there tonight? Thanks for listening.

00;29;57;01 – 00;30;28;16
Marc Moss
Go to your room. So I did. My 14 year old self is stomping up the stairs, silently cursing my dad. Some perceived transgression of mine. Maybe I put the dishes in the dishwasher incorrectly. Maybe I forgot to put the vacuum cleaner away after I vacuum the living room. I don’t know anything could have set him off. I walked into my room and I punched play on the tape deck and.

00;30;28;18 – 00;30;53;06

Lights out tonight. Trouble in the heartland. Got a head on collision. Smashing in my guts, man. Caught in the crossfire. That I don’t understand. But there’s one thing I know for sure I don’t give a damn for the same old played out scenes. Man I don’t give a damn for just the in-betweens. Honey, I want the heart, I want the soul, I want control right now.

00;30;53;08 – 00;31;10;15

You better listen to me, darlin. Talk about a dream. Try to make it real. The end up in the night with a fear so real. You spend your life waiting for a moment. That just don’t come.

00;31;10;17 – 00;31;15;07

Bruce Springsteen.

00;31;15;09 – 00;31;31;14

And Bruce Springsteen got me through that moment. He got me through lots of moments in my life. He got me through my first love. The only lover I’m ever going to need is your soul. Sweet little girl. Time.

00;31;31;17 – 00;31;57;14

He got me through loneliness. Like a river that don’t know where it’s flowing. Took a wrong turn. And I just kept going. And so loving somebody like that so much. Somebody. Music. You want to see him perform? And Bruce is a poet. He’s a dreamer. But really, he’s a storyteller. And he puts on 3 to 4 hour shows.

00;31;57;16 – 00;32;04;08

And I saw him from every tour from 1988 to 2005.

00;32;04;10 – 00;32;29;20

Not every show, but I grew up in Cleveland, so it was easier than here. And in 2005. Well, first of all, the shows were amazing, and I loved them so much that, in Gardiner, when I lived in Gardiner, Montana, I drove 11 hours. I didn’t have a car. And so I was in the back of a pickup truck 11 hours to Fargo, North Dakota to go see him.

00;32;29;23 – 00;32;36;11

You can listen to that story on the Tell Us Something website. I taught it a long time ago.

00;32;36;13 – 00;33;02;07
I even got to see him at Giants Stadium in New York City. I didn’t know I was going to be in New York this like 2003 ish in that neighborhood. And I called my Aunt Tina, who introduced me to Bruce, and she was like, hey, don’t buy a ticket. I was like, what are these scalpers? Okay, so I get on the train from Manhattan and I go to Giants Stadium, and I walk into the parking lot kicking rocks.

00;33;02;07 – 00;33;18;05

I got 20 bucks in my pocket hoping for the best. And this guy walks up, he’s like, do you need tickets? And I’m like, yeah. He goes, I know how much you’re out there. He goes, 30 bucks. I go, here’s ten. And he’s because you need their money. So he’s like, I can’t do it. I was like, okay.

00;33;18;05 – 00;33;32;26
Marc MossAnd I’m like turned to start walking away. And he’s like, wait a minute, I can do it. So I gave him ten bucks. This reporter walks over to me, hey, I’m from the New York Times. I’m doing a story on scalpers.

00;33;32;28 – 00;33;59;14

No lie. You can go to the New York Times website and read. photographer from Missoula, Montana, Marc Moss, had this to say. That’s true. But I didn’t get to see the Seeger Sessions tour. So in 2005, Bruce put together this 18 piece band brass band, and did a cover of, an album of Pete Seeger songs. And Joyce got to see the show.

00;33;59;18 – 00;34;24;13

Way before I knew Joyce, she was living in New Orleans right after Hurricane Katrina, and she was working at this restaurant right near the track where Jazz Fest happens. She got out of work, and she just walked right in. So 2012, now we’re married. She calls me at work. Mark, Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band are headlining Jazz Fest this year.

00;34;24;15 – 00;34;50;16

The Wrecking Ball album had just come out. I’m like, buy some plane tickets, we’re going to New Orleans. So we go to New Orleans. We’ve got friends there. We’re sitting at Louise’s by the track eating red beans and rice. I ask her, did you buy tickets? She goes, no, it’s Jazz Fest. Don’t worry about it. I’m like, look, if we’re going to do this show, we might get divorced.

00;34;50;18 – 00;35;15;27

I mean, it’s important. Yeah, I was exaggerating, but I mean, it’s really I don’t know why it didn’t occur to me that, like, I couldn’t just go buy the tickets myself, but I wasn’t thinking about that. And so she sort of breaks down later like minutes later, I don’t know, an hour later, goes down, buys tickets. 20 minutes later, for the first time in history, Jazz Fest sells out.

00;35;16;00 – 00;35;37;06

So eventually, you know, Jazz Fest comes around, we go to the show, it’s hot, it’s New Orleans, it’s June, it’s sweaty, it’s there’s no shade anywhere except for this one tree. And we’re sitting under this tree, and it’s 3:00 in the afternoon. And Bruce goes on at four, and doctor John’s playing, and I’m like, let’s go. We should start walking over to the stage.

00;35;37;08 – 00;36;01;03

Enjoys this like it’s Jazz Fest. Don’t worry about it. I’ve never been to Jazz Fest. I’m worried about it. I’m like, it’s like quarter after three. Can we just. I want to go see Doctor John. I’ve seen Doctor John, she says, but I haven’t. I say I want to see him. So it’s like 3:45. I start walking over there without all my people.

00;36;01;03 – 00;36;19;23

I don’t know, whatever. They’re just going to do what they’re going to do. They start to follow me. We get to the closest we can get, which is nowhere close. We’re going to have to watch the show on Jumbotrons, like from here to across the street outside the dentist. And that’s how far away we are. And I’m pissed.

00;36;19;25 – 00;36;41;03

I’m grumpy. I’m frustrated. I’m trying not to let it wreck my afternoon. I’m trying to be present and get ready for the show. But it’s hot outside and my hand is swelling up and my ring and my wedding ring is stuck on my finger. And I. It’s not like I want to take it off because. But my hand is hurt, my finger is hurting, it’s swelling and I’m starting to freak out.

00;36;41;03 – 00;37;02;06

And people are offering me ice. And this woman comes running over. Don’t put ice on it, she says. It’s going to make it worse. She pulls lotion out of her purse and she starts putting it on my finger, and she’s rubbing my finger, and she pulls my ring off and Bruce Springsteen walks out onto the stage. Thank God she gives me my ring back.

00;37;02;07 – 00;37;35;16

I put it in my pocket and it’s a party. Everyone’s dancing, everyone singing along. Strangers are kissing each other. Hugging. Everyone’s just. It’s a celebration and brings us through pain and heartache and sex and rock and roll and party and just so that you’re Clarence Clemons, the saxophone player and Bruce Springsteen’s best friend had died and Jake Clemons clearance his nephew had to fill in.

00;37;35;16 – 00;37;52;15

And during Born to Run, there’s a line. The change was made uptown and the big man joined the band. And at that moment, the show stops and a big slide show shows up selling vibrating clearances. Life.

00;37;52;17 – 00;38;12;23

He finishes the song and then he sings another song about the dead. If you’re here, they are here. If you’re here, they’re here. If you’re here, they’re here. We’re here together. It’s like a gospel revival.

00;38;12;25 – 00;38;40;28

So we walk out of the show and Joyce goes, I get it, I get it now. So we drive to Portland and see him there, and we get into the show. We’re close this time. We’re right up near the stage. And at that moment where the change was made up time and the big man joins the band like he stops the show again.

00;38;41;04 – 00;39;06;21

Except this time he has this long catwalk out into the audience, and he’s out on the catwalk and he turns around and he’s watching the show, you know, with us, the the slide show. And then this magical thing happens. He falls backwards off the stage into the crowd. The crowd catches him and he’s crowd surfing. I knew you were going to do that.

00;39;06;24 – 00;39;17;23

Crowd surfing across all of us. I got to grab his ass.

00;39;17;25 – 00;39;37;17

He gets up, back up onto the stage, and he’s, like, patting himself down like I did somebody steal my wallet? Ha ha. And he pulls out a phone out of his pocket and he’s surprised by it. Someone had shoved their phone into his pocket, and he takes a selfie and you’re like, throws it to the roadie. Roadie catches it and he goes, hey, if that was your phone.

00;39;37;18 – 00;40;01;06

Go get it after the show. Like, you don’t get that on a CD. You don’t get that streaming. You don’t get that on an album. You don’t get that you’ve been watching a video. That’s real connection. And I’m never going to get to see it again. Because his ticket prices are out of reach to readers. And then. And the plane fare because he’s not coming here.

00;40;01;08 – 00;40;34;16

So what I’m left with is gratitude that I got to see him so many times and experience that level of connection. So many times. And one of the things that he says during the show is, is anybody alive out there tonight? You tell me.

00;40;34;18 – 00;40;56;04

Thanks. Me! I am the founder and director of Tell Us Something and live with my wife Joyce, and our kitten Ziggy on Missoula’s North Side. Rounding out this episode at the Tell Us Something podcast. Can’t somebody get swept up in a windstorm while skydiving? Peer pressure in borrowed gear led to a harrowing experience in a story that she calls my Last Jump.

00;40;56;06 – 00;41;04;07

Thanks for listening.

00;41;04;09 – 00;41;33;15
Karna Sundby
There I was, hanging 1200 feet above the earth in gale force winds. And this is no shit. And that, my friends, is how a good skydiving story begins. It’s true. I was dangling from a parachute in the middle of a storm, being swept up the valley toward Snowbowl ski area. The next day’s Missoula in front page would read 59 mile an hour, winds wallop.

00;41;33;16 – 00;42;07;20

Western Montana skydiver lost up Grant Creek. It was August 15th, 1988. And what a great day it had been. It was a reunion of the silver Chip skydivers, which was a club at the University of Montana in the 60s and 70s. The party was happening at Grant Creek, in a meadow equipped with barbecues, kegs and a Cessna 180 that was taking off and landing all day to give these old skydivers the chance for another free fall together.

00;42;07;22 – 00;42;32;22

Although I had made well over 300 jumps with this club, I had no intention of making a skydive today. It had been ten years and I had never flown one of these fancy square parachutes that everyone was now using. And the ripcord wasn’t here anymore. It was down here someplace. And the parachute. Did you, just in case of a malfunction, wasn’t here where you could see it was behind you someplace.

00;42;32;24 – 00;42;58;15

So, no, everything was so different, and I was not going to jump. And then my friends started saying, come on, it’s going to be so much fun. Come on. The sunset is going to be so pretty from up there. So with that little bit of peer pressure, I changed my mind and was soon donning borrowed gear. I was wearing somebody else’s jumpsuit that was too big, somebody else’s rig that wasn’t comfortable.

00;42;58;18 – 00;43;22;07

Somebody else’s soft leather helmet. Unlike the hard motorcyle type helmet that I was accustomed to my own gear I had given away ten years earlier, and I loved it. Every time I looked up at that and saw that beautiful white and blue parachute, I felt like I was with an old friend who had safely landed me in so many different drop zones.

00;43;22;09 – 00;43;50;14
Karna Sundby
We had jumped into the oval at the University, into fireworks stands over the 4th of July, into weddings and rodeos and football games. I loved it. But this gear was so unfamiliar, and it had been so long that I said to the three guys I was with and this jump today, I’m going to dump high, which meant I’m going to pull my ripcord earlier than you pull yours.

00;43;50;16 – 00;44;15;09

Maybe 1000ft earlier so that I have a longer parachute. Right? So that in the unlikely event that I have a malfunction, I have more time to deal with it. So we were climbing into the plane, and my buddy Andy ran up with a hard helmet and said, wear this instead. It’ll be safer. So I swapped the soft leather one off my head for the harder, safer pair helmet.

00;44;15;12 – 00;44;37;29

And little did I know how grateful I would later be for this kind gesture. We took off and the plan was to go up to 8000ft for a 32nd freefall, but at 5000ft, the tower from the Missoula airport called us and said, if you’re going to go, you better go right now, there’s a big storm rolling in. So we looked out the open door, the airplane.

00;44;38;00 – 00;44;49;18

We could see these huge black clouds on the horizon. So we jumped.

00;44;49;20 – 00;45;14;19

It was incredible to be in freefall again. I had forgotten how much I loved this, and we were doing relative work, which meant we were flying together, holding hands, making a circle that was falling through the sky. Epic. Our parachutes all opened successfully and I was having so much fun flying this smaller, faster chute called a pair a plane.

00;45;14;21 – 00;45;33;01

I took the goggles off my eyes and clipped them on top of my helmet so I could feel the breeze in my face. I looked down and I could see the other three guys lower than me, getting ready to make perfect landings in the meadow. And my approach was all set up. I was going to have a great landing as well.

00;45;33;03 – 00;45;58;05

When suddenly I was moving backwards. Now this parachute had 32 miles an hour forward speed and I was being blown backwards. And then suddenly I was being buffeted around by this heavy, heavy winds. I looked down at the ground. I looked at my altimeter and saw I had gone up a couple hundred feet, which just doesn’t happen with this kind of parachute.

00;45;58;08 – 00;46;20;08

I realized that I was in the middle of this horrific storm, suspended from a few sheets of ripstop nylon. It’s funny how there’s not fear, how logic kicks in when you’re making decisions that may possibly save your life.

00;46;20;10 – 00;46;46;15

My first thought was maybe I’m caught in winds aloft. So I cranked a toggle, a steering line hard to make the parachute spiral down fast to get out of such winds. But no, I was still being blown backwards. So my second thought was, where can I possibly land? In those days, at the base of Grant Creek, there were just a few neighborhoods, and then it was forest all the way up to Snowbowl.

00;46;46;17 – 00;47;13;00

So I looked over my shoulder and in the forest I could see three homes with pretty big yards. And I thought, well, maybe I’ll land in one of those yards. And then I thought, no, they’re probably surrounded by electrical wires. I’ve never flown this parachute. It’s just too dangerous. So way up there. I had seen a clearing closer to Snowbowl, and I decided to turn and run with the wind and see if I could make it to the clearing.

00;47;13;02 – 00;47;31;10

Now you know that my parachute had 32 miles an hour forward speed. And you know that the winds had been clocked at 59 miles an hour. So you can do the math. I was screaming up that valley.

00;47;31;12 – 00;47;55;17

I didn’t make it to the clearing about 25ft above treetop level. I turned back into the wind because it would be better to land going 30 miles an hour backwards than to downwind it forward at 90 miles an hour. Fortunately, I remembered the tree landing protocol I had learned when I trained with the Silverton skydivers back in 1970.

00;47;55;20 – 00;48;20;19

You cross your legs like this and your arms like this, because one of the many bad outcomes of this situation was that I could land on top of a dead lodgepole pine. Skewered through some vulnerable body part and bleed to death.

00;48;20;22 – 00;48;36;26

But no. I was crashing through the lodgepole pines, branches, debris, twigs going everywhere. And I remember thinking, damn, I wish I was still wearing my goggles.

00;48;36;28 – 00;49;10;01

I thundered in and landed hard on the ground feet, but head hard enough to crack my pelvis. And without that helmet, I wonder if I would have cracked my skull. The wind was so intense that my parachute was still inflated and it was dragging me through the trees. And I reached up and started pulling the harness down. And then the harness is connected to the parachute by shroud lines, and I’m pulling the shroud lines down, trying, trying and trying to collapse the parachute.

00;49;10;03 – 00;49;36;25

Finally I got it deflated and I scooted back and laid on top of it so it wouldn’t re inflate. Eventually the wind subsided. I tried to stand up and that’s when I knew my leg was broken. So there’s nothing I could do but wait. As dusk approached, I try not to think of lions and wolves and bears on my.

00;49;36;27 – 00;49;48;00

And with a little prayer in my heart that went something like. What if you get me out of this one, I promise never again.

00;49;48;03 – 00;50;13;23

Meanwhile, back at the party, that storm hit hard and fast and was being blown all over the place. And my friends are me being blown away. So they jumped into their vehicles and raced up the road to rescue me. Now, in one of those three homes I had seen from the air, a family was was gathered out on their front porch watching this spectacular storm.

00;50;13;25 – 00;50;19;24

And they saw me fly by.

00;50;19;27 – 00;50;49;05

And then a little bit later, they saw my friends drive by. So they started shouting. He went that way. Lucky me. At least they would be looking on the correct side of the road. It was probably over an hour before they found me. And all I can say is thank God for shark. And when they did phone me, they showed me this big branch that I had apparently broken off a tree which had apparently broken my leg.

00;50;49;08 – 00;50;57;28

I call it a limb for a limb situation.

00;50;58;00 – 00;51;24;17

They firemen carried me out of the forest and drove me to the emergency room at Saint Pat’s Hospital. And, I didn’t know if the medical insurance I had at my job would cover a skydiving injury. So I told them that I’d been playing Frisbee.

00;51;24;20 – 00;51;29;29

And ran into a bench.

00;51;30;02 – 00;51;56;10

I also didn’t know that search and rescue had been called out to locate me. So you can imagine my surprise when this burly sheriff’s deputy comes walking into the exam room. So broke your leg, she said. I nodded. And you were up Grand Creek, were you? I said and you were playing Frisbee were you? And you ran into a bench did you.

00;51;56;13 – 00;52;01;13

Low flying bench. She asked.

00;52;01;15 – 00;52;09;23

And that’s no shit.

00;52;09;25 – 00;52;32;23
Marc Moss
Thanks. Karna. Karna Sundby has always been on her own unique uncharted past. Her curiosity and spiritual quest has taken her to places that most people would find bizarre, wondrous or enlightening, depending on their personal life experience. The one word they would never use to describe Kanha is boring. Karna’s gift and curse is being fearless. Thanks for listening to the Tell Us Something podcast.

00;52;32;25 – 00;52;47;01
Marc Moss
Remember that the next Tell Us Something event is January 13th. The theme is hold my beer. Learn how to pitch your story and get tickets at Tell Us something.org. Tune in next week to hear the concluding stories from the Never Again live storytelling event.

00;52;47;03 – 00;53;14;06
Jesse Ballard
I distinctly thought about the doll house in the corner, the horse mural on the wall. And so when I started to wake up from that nighttime nap, I was really surprised to look around and see thorn branches instead of that childhood bedroom wall. The meadows are there. They’re up to our knees in color and riotous glory. It’s a misty day, so we aren’t hurt.

00;53;14;14 – 00;53;42;10
Betsy Funk
It’s cool. And the mist has made the flowers scream at us. It’s glorious. And I’m hiking with my dog. Thank goodness for the open mouth piece. Right? Yeah. So I’m throwing up everywhere, and all of a sudden, the crowd of kids just falls completely silent.

00;53;42;12 – 00;53;48;17
Sydney Lang
And a kid goes, hey, that’s my grandma’s costume that you’re throwing up in.

00;53;48;19 – 00;53;59;28
Marc Moss
Listen, for those stories at tell us something Short or wherever you get your podcasts.

Marc Moss

Tickets are on sale for the next live in person Tell Us Something event. The theme is “Going Home”. In collaboration with Missoula Pride, Tell Us Something is excited to bring you this evening of true, personal stories featuring many voices from the LBGTQ+ community. Learn more and get your tickets at Tell Us something.org.

Welcome to the Tell Us Something podcast. Tell Us Something is a nonprofit that helps people share their true personal stories around a theme, live in person and without notes. I’m Mark Moss, your host and executive director of Tell Us Something. Sometimes adventure is chosen. Sometimes it’s thrust upon you. In this episode of the Tell Us Something podcast, we delve into the journeys of four remarkable people.

What happens when the things we hold dear start to crumble?  Join us as our first storyteller faces a heartbreaking choice: let go of her family legacy, or fight for a piece of the past while making a discovery about nonperminance in herself. And facing loss isn’t just about places, our next storyteller defies death itself, a therapist grapples with a hidden truth while our final storyteller navigates an unlikely love friendship running out on the trails.

Kathleen Kennedy

I was simultaneously indignant and sympathetic, but I also had this feeling like I would love for squatters to come there and light a fire and burn it down like, problem solved.

Susan Waters

And the voice said, do you want to stay or do you want to go? And without even thinking about it, I said, if I still have work I need to do here, I want to stay. And the voice said, okay.

Annabelle Winnie

I do wonder if what we think of as traits for neurodivergent, if they’re really adaptations, is there ways that the body adapts, behaviors adapt, and even the brain itself adapts to a world that often feels too bright, too loud. It’s just too much.

Amanda Taylor

We were texting each other every day. Morning. Tonight we call them play by plays, which I also loved because it made me feel sporty, like, yeah, we’re sending play by plays.”

Marc Moss

We acknowledge that we are gathered on the traditional lands of the Salish, Ponderay and Kalispell peoples who have stewarded this land throughout the generations. As spring unfolded, vibrant colors and rejuvenates the Earth, we recognize the interconnectedness of all life and the importance of honoring indigenous knowledge and practices. In this season of renewal, let us commit to fostering a deeper understanding of indigenous culture and history.

Take time to learn about the traditional ecological knowledge of the original inhabitants of this land, and incorporate sustainable practices into our daily lives. Together, let us strive to be mindful stewards of the land, fostering harmony and respect for all beings who call this place home. A tangible way that we can do this is to practice. Leave no trace principles when we are outside recreating.

We can pick up our dog’s waste when we are out hiking. Don’t get it on the way back from our hike. Get it when it happens and carry it with us. Pick up trash where we see it. Observe wildlife from a distance and avoid feeding them. By practicing, some of these leave no trace principles, we can be stewards of the land that we claim to love so much.

We take this moment to honor the land and its native people, and the stories and knowledge that they share with us. 

Our first storyteller is  Kathleen Kennedy. Kathleen’s cherished family cabin, a symbol of precious memories, faces the relentless grip of time and erosion. A cancer diagnosis adds another layer of urgency, forcing a confrontation with impermanence. We call her story “Lessons in Letting Go” Thanks for listening.

Kathleen Kennedy

Kathleen Kennedy

When I was three years old, my dad began digging a trench that would be filled with concrete and form the foundation of a small cabin that he built by hand on the coast of Northern California. I can still see him, the shovel in his hands. His foot on the kick plate,  he’s wearing a white t shirt, he’s got zinc oxide on his nose and his hair.

His wavy brown hair is blowing in the breeze, there’s Bishop Pines behind him, and the mighty Pacific Ocean to his left.  My memory might be aided by the 8mm  home movie camera that chronicled much of this process,  but  when I say he built it by hand, I’m not exaggerating. We didn’t have electricity until the mid 90s when we got neighbors, and so every board was cut with a handsaw, every nail hammered in by hand.

And so it was a really slow process, but being teachers. My parents could load us up in the Volvo station wagon each summer, and we’d go camp in the redwoods of Guadalajara. My dad would go up to the lot and build. We were like a little hippie family. My sisters and me, we were wearing our plaid pants, our crocheted ponchos.

We had bandanas taming our really long stringy hair. But my parents were not hippies. They were about as straight as the nails that kept the framing together.  But, Once we could sleep inside the cabin, those times were magical. We could go down on the beach and play unsupervised, explore the tide pools.  We could look for the tiniest of seashells. 

And when the tide came in, we’d just go into the cabin and play. to the second floor and look out these magnificent windows onto the Pacific, and there was always something to watch. We look for gray whales, we watch osprey and brown pelicans, birds that were recovering from the ravages of DDT. And when I think about it, It’s really where I fell in love with the world and it’s likely why I became a science teacher. 

So  one year there was an El Nino event and the heavy rains and surf washed away about the last 15 feet.  long wooden staircase that led us down to the beach. And, you know, we didn’t mind. We just tied a rope around a post, and then we rappelled down. And, and when we did that, we’d go through this, like,  It was like mudstone, like a scree of mudstone.

And we didn’t really pay much attention to it. All of this material that was just kind of crumbling down from the cliff. And, you know, El Ninos occur on pretty regular intervals. So over the years, more of the cliff would erode. And then eventually the top started to erode as well. So, you know. And I distinctly remember sitting in my UM Geology class and learning about slope and a material’s angle, angle of repose and just having this sinking feeling because  suddenly I thought about that material and from that lecture hall I started to worry. 

I always knew I was going to retire there, there someday, you know, I would be content to live that simple life. Um, and I, I continued to visit and I put that out of my mind. But as an adult, my worries really shifted to my parents. And  my dad was showing some signs of dementia. And because I would travel from Missoula to the Bay Area and go up to the cabin to get my ocean fix, I was, I was aware of it.

I, each trip would notice more cognitive decline and I tried to tell my sisters and my mom and everyone was in denial until one day there was no denying it. And a few years later, he died of an aortic aneurysm. And I have to say, somewhat thankfully, he spared us from what would have surely been a painful, long goodbye. 

But,  I continued to go to the cabin. It was my happy place.  My mom, she struggled to get up there. But I would take her when I could.  And one trip I arrived up there and, and the ground was kind of sinking and there was a tree that was leaning one of those Bishop pines and our neighbor’s deck was sinking and they had hired a geotech firm to figure out what was going on.

And I took all these pictures so I could report back to my sisters what was going on. And,  you know, the building didn’t. It wasn’t worth much, but it was my dad’s legacy. And that view was priceless. And I started to really, like, campaign to save the cabin.  And so we did try.  We hired that geotech firm and we got a plan and we moved the cabin  and then we put it on.

Kind of an, at an angle because the lot was getting smaller and smaller, closer and closer to the edge, if you will. And so,  did that on an emergency permit. We couldn’t obtain a full permit until we got approval. And so it was up on these supports.  And then COVID hit, and the county planning office closed down, and they weren’t doing anything.

They were not going to approve any permits because no one was there. When they finally reopened, suddenly the rules had changed. And now the height variance was no longer going to be grandfathered in, and they wanted a rare plant size. survey. They wanted an archaeological survey. Um, they did not like what the geotech firm had proposed for the foundation.

And we were sort of stuck. And you know, the money was going out to sea much like the material from the cliff. And we really didn’t know what to do. There were no more liquid assets. And so we just kind of paused while we gathered ourselves.  And then that cough that I had always attributed to Missoula’s, uh, smoky summer air, it turned out to be stage three lung cancer.

And suddenly, like, my whole world was crumbling. And so,  I was not thinking about the cabin, but I was also thinking how much I would have loved to be able to be there to recover from my treatment, but I couldn’t go because it wasn’t on a foundation and therefore uninhabitable. And about the same time, we had these new neighbors.

They were part of that, like, COVID urban exodus.  And they started to call and email, and they had a lot of complaints and questions and, you know, they were saying things like, hey, this is an eyesore and a fire hazard and we’re worried vagrants or squatters might come. And I was simultaneously indignant  and sympathetic. 

But I also had this I was feeling like I would love for squatters to come there and, and light a fire and burn it down, like problem solved.  So they, they were really relentless and, you know, we’re just like, Hey, she’s dealing with cancer. Like you can’t do this, but they didn’t care. And so finally I said to my sisters, we got to hire a lawyer.

And so we did. And then we, uh, said, hey, why don’t you ask them if they would like to buy it and perhaps deal with the expense, like a demolition permit is really expensive there, as is disposal. And miraculously, they said yes.  And then I had to  figure out how to let go, how to let go of this place that meant so much.

And so I tried to remember all of my Buddhist studies and think about impermanence and non attachment. And I finally came to a place where I was like, okay, yes, this is what we have to do, I understand.  And,  I also couldn’t stand the thought of certain things being demolished, and I had to go to retrieve them.

There were these little wooden, um, plaque pieces, scraps of wood that people wrote messages It was to my dad at his memorial and we were gonna put it in the fireplace there and burn them to send those messages up, but we never did. But I knew right where they were.  So my friend Sheila and I decided we’d go on this retrieval mission.

And we bought hard hats and gloves and, you know, wore these old clothes, and we drove up from our place in Marin, and we had to break in the door, because  it had settled. And when we opened that door, it was like this multi sensory assault.  Um, there were mouse droppings everywhere and mouse carcasses. It was almost like the mice died while they were moving through, scampering across the floor because, I don’t know, it was so clear that it was the right decision.

There was nothing that could have been done to bring that place back. And so I retrieved the things and I went up the stairs and I said, you know, kind of my goodbye and I looked out. The window, it had been turned and I looked at the view and it wasn’t anything like what I loved. Um,  so I cried and I took my leave  and now that I’m dealing with a cancer recurrence,  I’m trying to.

I’d like to just summon those lessons again to remember that clinging to something,  it often just delays inevitable, um, the inevitable and that it can often bring you even more pain.  And that, But the reality of impermanence, there’s no escaping it. So as I move through this next round of cancer, I want to remember those lessons.

I want to let them inform me  and inform how I choose to spend the rest of my days on earth. Thank you.

Marc Moss

Thanks, Kathleen.

Kathleen Kennedy grew up in Oakland, CA, and is a science teacher at Big Sky High School, with 24 years teaching experience. She has won a variety of prestigious teaching awards. She won the EcoDaredevil award in 2009, and in 2011 she was a Fulbright Japan-US Teacher in the Exchange Program for Education for Sustainable Development  She was an Adult Participant in American Youth Leadership Program’s Trip to Thailand in 2015, and continues to be passionate about her students and teaching. When she’s not busy saving the world and working towards a sustainable future, you might find her enjoying the beauty Missoula has to offer, rocking out to Pearl Jam, or dancing along to her favorite Dave Matthews song.

Next we join Susan Waters on a journey that transcends the physical.  Hear the voice that offered a stark choice at death’s door. Susan defies the odds and lives on to continue her work on this corporal plane. Susan calls her story “Fade to White”. Thanks for listening.

Susan Waters

One of the great joys of many outdoor recreationists is mountain biking.  There’s that incredible sense of freedom, being able to go far and fast.  And the burn of the muscles as you grind up those hills. And the precision and the focus it takes to do the single tracks.  And then that screaming exhilaration when you’re flying downhill. 

So it’s September, 2005.  Beautiful, late summer, Missoula day that you just don’t want to let go of.  I had just finished a group trail ride up in Paddy Canyon.  And everybody’s relaxed and happy, and they start heading back into town.  And I lingered behind because I wanted to take some photographs.  So when I was ready to come back down to town, I loaded up my bike, and started heading down Paddy Canyon Road by myself. 

And for those that don’t know, it’s a paved two lane road, generally in pretty good shape, light traffic,  um, but windy.  And I’m cruising along, not a care in the world.  And the last thing I remember is this visceral feeling that suddenly something huge was in front of me. And it happened so fast, and I couldn’t hit it, so I slammed on the brakes,  and black. 

The next thing I know, I’m pulling myself off the pavement,  onto the gravelly shoulder of the road.  And I’m stunned, and I have absolutely no idea what had just happened.  I was there for a while, and this little pickup truck comes up the road.  And a man who spoke very little English asked if I was okay. 

And, you know, stubbornly, I said, ah, you know, I’ll shake it off. I’ll, I’ll just, I’ll be okay. And I tried to get up, and I couldn’t.  So he stopped.  There was another bicyclist that came up the road, and he summed up the situation pretty quickly and took control and said, you need to go to the hospital.  So they load me up in the truck. 

We’re riding down Pattee Canyon Road,  and I keep losing consciousness,  and I manage to crank down the window.  And stick my head out so that the water, the, the air would hit me in the face and keep me awake.  And my consciousness kept fading to white.  And then there was this voice.  And it was genderless,  very kind but neutral, and matter of factly said, you know you can die from this, don’t you? 

And I thought, well, it’s looking a little worse than I thought.  And the voice said, do you want to stay or do you want to go?  And without even thinking about it, I said, if I still have work I need to do here, I want to stay.  And the voice said,  okay.  And from that point on, I had absolutely no fear.  I had an unshakable faith that I would be okay. 

And for once in my life, I surrendered into that. 

And I was at complete peace.  And this was way before the hospital drugs. 

So we have a bouncy ride back down into town.  We hit the downtown traffic, and it’s heavy. So the two guys in the truck are yelling at the other motorists in two languages to get out of our way.  We get to the ER, and things are relatively quiet. And that’s it. And, the crescendo starts building up, there’s more people, there’s more equipment, there’s all these sounds, they’re stitching me up, they’re taking me into scans,  and a doctor comes out, and is very serious,  and says,  you have a concussion, you have broken bones,  and you have severe internal injuries,  we’re gonna have to put you on life flight to go to Seattle. 

And I’m sitting there, taking a minute to take it in, and I’m like, okay.  So I’m laying on the table, they’re prepping me, and there’s two nurses, just right outside the door in the corridor.  And one of them says, I don’t think she’s gonna make it.  She came around the corner, and she saw me looking at her, and she was horrified. 

But I had to smile at her.  And I think I even winked at her. And I wasn’t upset at all.  Because I knew she was wrong. 

So now the hospital drugs are kicking in.  They wheeled me out on the tarmac at the airport  to get me on the life flight plane.  And I’m in one of those ridiculous hospital gowns, you know those really thin ones that make you feel really, really vulnerable?  And there was a big wind,  and my thought was, oh my god, what happens if the plane crashes?

And this is all I’m wearing. 

So the flight,  the pain,  boy, it hits hard  and I’m so uncomfortable and I turn on my side and my blood pressure crashes.  My angel paramedic brought me back  and I’ll never forget looking up at those warm, comforting eyes  that were so reassuring. And his gaze never left mine, that entire flight. 

One of my friends was able to get to the ER quickly, and they talked her into getting on the life flight with me to be my medical advocate.  And at one point in the flight, I looked up and I saw her. She was in a jump seat facing toward me. And she had those big headsets on. And her face was deathly white.

And her eyes like saucers. And she looked so small and so afraid.  And I just wanted to hug her and convince her that everything was gonna be okay. 

Seattle was nuts. Yes. I mean, if ever there was a time to check out, it was then.  There was so much noise and chaos and they were just tossing me around that I just surrendered again into this  peaceful sea of white. 

I regained consciousness about a week later in the hospital.  And then a couple of weeks after that I was released back home to a very long recovery. 

My helmet,  helmets,  and trauma medicine saved my life, and for that I will always be grateful.  The people were so skilled and so caring,  but the system is very strained,  and they don’t have a lot of time  to give individual treatment.  So after about a year of recovery,  An extreme physical therapy, it’s a sport. 

They were proposing some really invasive and scary surgeries.  And it just, down to my bones, did not feel right.  So I decided to go another direction. And I started looking into alternative health.  And there was no stone left unturned. And hey, it’s Missoula, you’re all out there. 

I did mental health therapy, I did eastern medicine, sacred,  indigenous,  all of those medicines  that are ancient and so wise.  And all of these practitioners took the time  And they were really present and really listened. 

I have to acknowledge I have a lot of privilege.  That I was able to,  I had a lot of options.  That not a lot of people have.  And they should.  Equally. 

And I also acknowledge that I had a lot of fairy dust. Good luck to.  So, do I regret  staying?  To be honest, at times, yes.  The following years were the hardest of my life, and it wasn’t just the recovery.  I lost both of my dear friends, lifelong friends, prematurely and tragically. Both my parents died.  I lost several animal companions. 

And I lost my livelihood.  But I’m on borrowed time,  so I have to be grateful, because I got to spend a few more years with those friends.  I got to hold both of my parents hands before they died. 

I played hard with those pet companions in the mountains and in the rivers.  I made tons of new friends, beautiful, wonderful friends.  And my family expanded,  and the love multiplied.  And I was so inspired that I studied and trained and I opened my own wellness practice. 

And  every day,  I’m so moved to be able to help other people find their light and their voice.  And gain the skills they need to navigate through their changes and challenges,  just as my teachers had done with me.  And they,  and beautiful, quirky Missoula and community that we have here,  all rallied together and motivate me every day.

To find joy and gratitude. And to keep looking for all of that work that I’m still left to do. [Applause]

Marc Moss

Thanks, Susan.

Susan Waters is an avid outdoor recreationist, family and friend cultivator, and animal lover. Raised in Missouri and Colorado, she was drawn to the laid-back and nature-focused lifestyle of Missoula in the 1990s. She has had many livelihoods, including working as an artist, writer, filmmaker, photographer and communicator for numerous environmental and social causes. Active in the community, Susan cherishes all of her daily connections and navigates with an open heart and a well earned sense of trust.

Coming up after the break,

Despite professional achievements and a happy family, a deep unease lingers for our first storyteller after the break, until a surprising discovery unlocks a door to self-understanding

Annabelle Winnie

I do wonder if what we think of as traits for neurodivergent, if they’re really adaptations, is there ways that the body adapts, behaviors adapt, and even the brain itself adapts to a world that often feels too bright, too loud. It’s just too much. 

Marc Moss

and our final story about two women exploring a new friendship, running on epic trails, pushing both their bodies and their hearts to the limit.

Amanda Taylor

We were texting each other every day. Morning. Tonight we call them play by plays, which I also loved because it made me feel sporty, like, yeah, we’re sending play by plays.”

Marc Moss

Stay with us.

Thank you to the Good Food Store who, as the Story Sponsor, helped us pay our storytellers. Learn more about them at goodfoodstore.com. Thanks to Spark Arts who provided childcare for the performance. You can learn more about Spark at sparkartslearning.org. Thanks to our Stewardship sponsor, Blackfoot Communications, who helped us to give away free tickets to underserved populations. Learn more about Blackfoot, celebrating 70 years, at goblackfoot.com.

Thank you to the Good Food Store who, as the Story Sponsor, helped us pay our storytellers. Learn more about them at goodfoodstore.com. Thanks to Spark Arts who provided childcare for the performance. You can learn more about Spark at sparkartslearning.org. Thanks to our Stewardship sponsor, Blackfoot Communications, who helped us to give away free tickets to underserved populations. Learn more about Blackfoot, celebrating 70 years, at goblackfoot.com.

You are listening to the Tell Us Something podcast where people share their true stories around a theme live in person without notes. I’m Marc Moss. Storytellers in this episode shared their stories in front of a full house on March 26, 2024 at The George and Jane Dennison Theatre in Missoula Montana.]

In our next story, Annabelle Winnie, a successful therapist and mother, grapples with a lifelong sense of dissonance. Despite outward competence, she’s navigated years of therapy, seeking answers for a struggle she couldn’t quite grasp. Annabelle calls her story “Belonging.” Or…”Another Way to See.” Or “Another Way to Be.” Thanks for listening.

Annabelle Winnie

I’m in my new therapist’s office.  We’re sitting under the branches of her indoor ficus tree. Across the room are bookshelves. There’s a sculpture, or maybe it was a print of a caregiver embracing a child. Because this is Missoula, a few of you may be wondering, have we had the same therapist? 

I’d gone to see her because I was having a dilemma of dissonance.  I guess people often see me as competent, composed, confident.  This was about 10 years ago. I was the mother of two young boys, married, and a successful professional.  And yet, I’d been in and out of therapy most of my life. More in than out.

The first time I went, I was seven or eight. My mom brought me because I seemed like a miniature adult. And it worried her. 

Yeah, hi mom, it’s me. I, I, yeah, I’m in my mid forties, I know. We haven’t really talked about this in decades.  But you remember in third grade and sixth grade, I didn’t understand what was happening. I just didn’t get it. It was terrible. It’s still kind of like that, I just fake it,  but I don’t understand what’s going on. 

This is when information about women and autism was just hitting the mainstream media. Because of my job, I had to read about it and I had to understand it. And the more I read first person narratives and interviews, the more I identified. It was starting to tear me up in part, apart, inside.  I tried talking to family, friends, even some close colleagues.

For the most part, I felt like, I felt like I got this look that said,  I don’t want to hurt your feelings, Annabelle, but I don’t see it.  And, and this  just  hit me in a very painful way.  I am a therapist,  and I’ve had a lot of positive feedback pretty consistently about my work. And yet I was understanding myself in this new way that made so much sense to me.

It just organized so many struggles I’d had.  But at this point, I was like, well, If I’m autistic, does that mean I can’t have empathy for other people or I can’t understand other people’s internal world? Here I was, I couldn’t understand my own internal world. I was starting to spin out. It was coming out sideways with my kids.

I was behaving with them in ways that I knew weren’t good for them. And so when this latest therapist suggested, as I myself had done already a couple of times, she is. Suggested that I get assessed, and I agreed. 

03a p2 Annabelle Winnie.wav

 It was kind of like a drug deal.  I had to cross state lines and it was a cash only  kind of a transaction.  I couldn’t. I couldn’t bear the idea of going to someone that I might interact with professionally and there’s no way this was going to be on my medical record. So I found a clinic in Denver, I went, I poured my heart out, they talked to my family, I took their tests and then I waited. 

I’m in my car behind my work building when I get the call, I take it right away.  Okay,  email, assessment, next week, talk, thank you.  They diagnosed me with mild autism. It’s still really weird and it was kind of painful.  It made so much sense. For the first time as an adult, I had a sense that there was a rhyme and reason to the ways that I had so consistently struggled. 

I read the assessment further. Yeah. Yeah.  Turns out,  I’m actually really smart. 

This really surprised me because  I knew I was very good at a few things, but I struggled with a lot of things that I didn’t hear people talking about as struggles. 

I’m not very smart visually. So I have a very high discrepancy between my verbal capacity and my visual capacity.  And again, I started to wonder, is this why not once, but twice as a child, I ended up in the emergency room because I kept walking into telephone poles and concrete pillars.  I wondered if maybe my brain just didn’t know what to do with visual social information. 

It’s like, who cares? Words are so much more interesting.  And then maybe my brain doesn’t put energy into my own nonverbal cues,  visual cues. So sometimes I may seem a little flat or wooden. And  I started to think about myself as a plant.  And this was very, very hopeful for me. 

We do share over 60 percent of our DNA with bananas. 

It’s true. 

I imagined, I really had hope, like autonomously as an adult, I had hope for the first time.  Like a plant, if I could just figure out  what are my sensory needs, what do I need to process a little more fluidly? What do I need to learn social, emotional  information or experiences? It’s not intuitive for me.  I imagine that if I understood this about myself and I could develop a deep acceptance, a radical love, that like a plant, I would just  grow. 

Nowadays, I feel more like a dog.  And like a dog shakes off excess water and mud, I just want to shake off preconceived notions, labels.  I just want to be myself.  There is a Maori.  A  linguist and educator who created a dictionary of mental health and addiction terms in the Maori language.  Some of the words he had to create because they didn’t exist in his language.

Takiwatanga is the word that he created for autism and it means in a person’s own time,  in a person’s own way.  He created this definition based on his experience of having been friends with a man with autism from as children and through adulthood.  I do wonder if what we think of as traits for neurodivergence, if they’re really adaptations, there are ways that the body adapts. 

Behaviors adapt, and even the brain itself adapts to a world that often feels too, too bright, too loud. It’s just too much. 

I’m in my late twenties. I’m in an intensive care unit. My grandfather just had bypass surgery. He’s on a ventilator. He can’t speak. His arms are restrained to the bed. My aunt and my mom are there. It’s a mess. I’m holding my grandfather’s hand. He’s he’s looks terrible.  This is my grandfather, a very quiet man. 

His humor was so subtle and so dry, if you sneezed, you might miss his jokes.  He was a physicist and he was a researcher and it wasn’t until after he died that his family, we knew how, um, accomplished he was cause he just didn’t talk about it.  He would reference chaos theory to try to motivate him to do housework. 

I’m going to go make some order out of the chaos, he would say, and rub his knuckles together in this very rhythmic, um, familiar way.  As he would go upstairs to work in his office. So I’m standing there with him, I’m holding his hand, he’s squeezing my hand, I’m squeezing him back, he’s squeezing my hand, and it comes to me in a moment, this is my grandfather who was a telegraph operator, that was his first job out of college.

He’s giving me SOS, I look at him and I say, you’re giving me SOS, and I wonder if he thinks he’s dying. I explain to him what’s happening, he’s on a vent, it’s going to pass. He’ll be able to talk again. And I, I do wonder if these questions of identity become so important for us as humans because it orients us toward where we belong and to whom we belong. 

Marc Moss

Thanks, Annabelle.

Annabelle Winnie has lived in Missoula since 2011. You might find her walking or biking around town, acting as chauffeur for one of her 2 kids, or taming the wild raspberry patch in her backyard. 

Rounding out this episode of the Tell Us Something podcast is Amanda Taylor, who learns that the path to love isn’t always smooth, and Amanda and Heather learn that the most powerful relationships can exist outside the box. Amanda calls her story “Heather”. Thanks for listening.

Amanda Taylor

 I Always thought that I needed to be perfect to be loved  and then I met Heather and Heather is almost six feet tall. She casually looks like an athletic supermodel without trying  she has naturally like white blonde hair and incredible calves  We first met at a Griz game, which is funny because I am not sporty at all. 

And we met at the game, and, you know, we stayed in touch afterwards via social media. And this was about 13 years ago.  And I would see her posting about going on runs, like the Missoula Marathon, or the RUT, which is a, if you don’t know, it’s a race in Big Sky where people pay money to run up a mountain where there’s, like, off the sides and they say that it’s fun. 

Um, and I would just hit love on those posts 

and I would run into her around town and she would say, Amanda, you have to come running with me. And I said, yeah, totally.  It’s like, I, I won’t be running with you.  And then about seven years ago I went through a breakup.  And I decided to reinvent myself as a trail runner.  And I remembered Heather. And so I reached out to her and I said, Hey, would you be up for showing me some trails around town?

If you just show me a few, like you, you don’t have to keep going with me, but if you just go with me like twice and show me where to go, then I can go alone and I’ll stop bothering you.  And she said, sure. And within five minutes, we had plans to meet up that week to go run at waterworks. And we did a loop around waterworks and talked about our jobs.

And I probably talked about dating like I always do.  And she, uh, you know, we didn’t share a whole lot. And then, um, she asked if I wanted to go on a steeper run and I said, sure, if we can go slow and she said, yes. So then we met up a few days later and went up Sentinel.  And as we made our way up, and my calves are burning, and my lungs are burning, and I’m trying to be sporty, um,  We hit this ice field.

It’s like a 3×3 ice field.  And I was like, ah, I’m scared.  I’m like, frozen. And she steps across the ice field with her giant calf.  And she reached across the ice and helped me across. And I was so embarrassed. I figured she would never want to go on an adventure with me again.  And then we got to the top and she went to give me a high five.

And I just did, you know, Cause  I’m not sporty.  And, um,  and then things kind of escalated after that. The next thing I knew, we had a workout schedule Monday through Saturday. 

With, um, runs and weights and yoga and Pilates. And, uh, we were texting each other every day, morning to night. We called them play by plays, which I also loved cause it made me feel sporty.  I’m like, yeah, we’re sending play by plays.  Um.  And then, um, you know, over time and many miles and,  and hours in the woods and up and down mountains and many pairs of shoes, I started to sense that there was something sad about her. 

And you can’t really approach someone and say, why is your soul sad?  So I thought,  I’m going to crack this nut, um,  I’m just going to share everything I can with her.  And then maybe she’ll tell me why she’s sad.  And so,  you know, and we had tons of time out there. Um, so I just shared everything about my life, a bunch of things that I will not be saying into a microphone tonight. 

Um, and things that were really shrouded with shame. And she would take all of them and say, Oh yeah, I could totally see how like given your life and what you’ve been through, like that totally makes sense that you would do that.  I was like, Oh, okay. She’s still here. Cool. Um,  and then she began to share a little bit about the relationship she was in.

And basically the conclusion that she had come to was that it wasn’t really love, like big love that makes your heart explode. It was just okay.  And he was a good person and they had a good life. So that’s what she was going to do.  I was like, ah, that’s where it is. Um, And so also why we were running all these miles is because she had gotten into a 100 mile trail running race and for some reason she thought I should pace her in it. 

And so we were training for this and I was going to pace her for the last 20 miles.  And we went to Idaho for this race, and, uh, during the race, at one point,  you know, she’s at mile 80, and I have fresh legs, so I can keep up, and, um, oh, if you’ve never been to a 100 mile trail running race, it is a spectacle.

Um, So, um,  Everyone starts out super pumped, they’re like full of smiles. And then you meet them at aid stations along this hundred mile route, up and down mountains, through the woods, through the night.  And as they go to aid stations, the life just slowly leaves  their faces.  And their, like, bouncy running becomes like a zombie shuffle. 

And they just look more and more sad every time you see them.  So I was there with her, mile 80,  and by this point she was having a lot of pain in her knees, and we were on a ridgeline, and I just remember watching her moving in pain. And behind my sunglasses, I’m crying. Because it’s so painful to see her in pain, but I’m supposed to be the strong one, like watching my clock, making sure we make the cutoff so she can finish.

So I did my job, I kind of held it together, and you can’t like, when you’re a pacer, you can’t touch them, you can’t hold their hand, you can’t hug them. So I just had to watch her suffer, and it was awful. But I kept saying, we got it, we just have to keep moving.  Eventually, we did get to the end, and, uh, she was the only female finisher of that race. 

Woo! 

And then on the way home, we sat in the back of the car for a lot of the ride, and she slept with her head on my leg. And I remember just wanting to cry about how much I loved her.  And I just thought, gosh, this is a really intense friendship. 

And, um,  It was. 

And then we got home and a couple days later we went for a walk to the river and we sat by the river and debrief the race and how she won and um,  and then she got serious and she said, Amanda, I have to ask you something. I was like, okay. And she said, what do you think about my relationship?  And I said, do you really want to know?

Because this is going to be hard. And she said, yes.  And so I said,  I don’t think that you’re happy and I love you so much that it  causes me pain to know that you’re not happy and that you’re not giving yourself a chance to live your happiest life.  And I said, I can’t.  I don’t think there’s any way I could sit.

Oh, I think I forgot to say, at some point in there they got engaged. So pretend I said that.  Boop! Little rewind. Um, so they were engaged and I said,  I don’t think I can sit at your wedding and watch you knowing that you are not happy. Like, that would break my heart.  And then we just sat there and stared at the river for a while. 

And then in  classic Amanda form, just blurting out things I feel uncomfortable about, um, I just said,  also,  I want to make out with you. 

And she said nothing. 

So I thought, great. I just made the greatest friendship of my life really weird.  Made it weird again. Okay. Bye.  And, um, I said, Oh my gosh, did I just ruin everything? And she just grabbed my hand, and we stared at the river, and she said, You didn’t do anything wrong. You’re fine. I just need to figure out what I’m going to do with my life. 

Which is such an easy task, right? Um, so,  um, I said, okay, and we parted ways. And then later, or a few days later, we met up to go for a run, because a hundred miles wasn’t enough.  Um, and I got to the trailhead, and she said, get in the car. And I said, okay. And, uh, and then she said, Amanda, I’m just gonna tell you everything.

Mm hmm.  And she said, I have loved women since I was four.  And I have loved you from the time that I helped you across the ice.  The timer doesn’t count if I’m trying not to cry.  Okay. 

Um, 

and she said,  I was dying when you wore that black dress to the trail running festival. And I was dying when you hung out in a swimsuit and a flannel all day.  And this whole time I have just been trying to be respectful and not see you like that, because I love you so much.  Whoo,  and then for the first time in my life,  I kissed a woman. 

And her Her hands were soft, and her face was soft, and her lips were soft, and there was no like, scratchy hair 

exfoliating my face. 

And we were basically together after that. And then,  you know, we were late for everything because we were in bed. And um,  And then the bliss wore off  and I was still the person I was with my issues and she was still the person she was with her issues  and the romantic part of our relationship did not work. 

But  we made a deal to be friends and to not give up on one another. And after that was a year, a very tumultuous year, or maybe a little longer of the most difficult conversations I have ever had that I never want to have again.  But,  um, 

now, um, she is the greatest, one of the greatest cheerleaders of my life. And she is living her happiest life with her girlfriend. And. And I am living my life knowing, even though I forget for moments, sometimes I know in my bones that I can be imperfect and loved.  Thank you.

Marc Moss

Thanks, Amanda. Amanda Taylor is a lover of laughter and of love. After sharing a story at Tell Us Something one year ago, she finally followed her dream of trying stand-up comedy. Now she is a local stand-up comedian, even though she feels like an imposter saying that. Amanda is on a lifelong journey of living in alignment with herself, and is forever grateful to each person who has loved and continues to love her along the way.

Please remember that our next event, in partnership with Missoula Pride is on June11 at the Glacier Ice Rink in the Missoula County Fairgrounds. The theme is “Going Home ”.  Learn more about Tell Us Something and get tickets for the next event at tellussomething.org.